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Good to meet you at T4G, Darryl. On thought #2, you may want to go back to the T4G 2006 messages. Al Mohler's message was on the theme of cultural engagement.

Thanks, Dan. It was good to meet you as well. I'll definitely listen to that message.

Your question is too big to address in this forum. I'll have to start a blog. No God wouldn't do that to the world.

"I loved being at T4G, yet it was definitely a cross-cultural experience. Will we see Canadian and other contextualized expressions of Gospel movements?"

Let's hope not especially as you describe them and as they present their positions online.
How many none US attendees were there? Did you actually find they care about your cross-cultural awareness?

I read US SBC Calvinist missionaries ready to set out and I cringe, sinning in my heart. My sin is so shameful and discouraging - knee jerk, afraid, discouraged - whispering please don't be called here. We have enough wounded, please don't come and wound more. And I have to repent the readiness to leave Christianity so willing to crush using 'doctrine' and willing to mad monster through our lives, faith and make unequivical demands we toe their line.

Andrew Jones gets 'contextual' Cheer Team Pryo's idea of it, the if you must, it's chest thumping, in your face, you are with us or against us aggressiveness. I can't be crushed by this Calvinism anymore. None of it is worth even trying to measure up too. There is always one more rung to climb. And another and another.

Now George is thinking Calvinism is gospel, at least you have the education to point him back to Christ. We Armenians are just going to be more more misguided scum. as he processes what he learned or thinks he learned.

So you got to hang out with the cool Calvinist guys and get your books, your lifeblood,
What does Charlene, girlfriends and wives get to do while you intellectually gifted attendess discuss nuances with appointed Calvinist stars?

I respect your hope very much, believe and know you hold it deeply and with terrible sincerity, it's your job and what you are paid for. You have an ability to work from inside out in structures and movements.
All these conferences will help you move up into higher levels of management in your denomination and and humble leadership would be such a breath of fresh air.
This lack of face to face robust theological debate has to be lonely for you that you took from this trip, and I see your intellectual starving come to the fore when you get so excited and pumped about your conferences. I find myself feeling badly for you. We fail you, we can never meet your needs.

To bad you can't teach in a seminary Darryl, where you can receive intellectual stimulation instead of hanging around us theologically disinterested ordinary messy Christians.

If I didn't know you and the Spirit's fruit shining in our get togethers I'd walk away from Christianity. Jesus Christ has never demanded what your Calvinist buddies and their doctrine demand, and because He will not forsake me, I remain His child.
We have little in common don't we? Just blogging I guess.

LT has a post up about gospel and contextulaization and he didn't have to drop fancy famous US names, fan boy conferences or use missional/Calvinist/Reform words. LT shows Christ. I think you'll appreciate his post.
John Stackhouse has a good article up on gender and the Trinity and Tall Skinny Kiwi sure cuts through the Calvinist extremist dross with grace and clarity.

I forget most of these guys you need to hang with can afford all these books and conference fees and conferences are wonderfully common ground for you and others who share your needs for learning these ways. I'm glad you were blessed.

Bene:

Once in a while you leave a comment that deserves to be read a hundred times, and this is one of them. I really want to thank you for this. It's profound, heartfelt, honest, and I need it.

I hope I've made it clear in my posts that what I really long for, I didn't completely find in Louisville. Sometimes I don't know how clearly I'm communicating, and I may not have made this clear enough.

Nor will I find it in the seminary.

My biggest theological mentors/examples/heros know what they believe, but they are humble, loving, generous, and up to their necks in real ministry. They deeply respect both women and men, and like Tall Skinny Kiwi they communicate with grace and clarity. They're perfectly fine with ordinary, messy Christians (is there any other type?).

I'm so grateful for people like these. I think we need more of the right type of theology, because pragmatism is killing us, but this is the type of theology we need.

That's all for now. I need to read your comment a few more times later today. Thank you, Bene, for making it.

Bene,

Your comments really resonated with me. Especially the '...crushed by Calvinism.' Darryl, if pragmitism is killing us, what will folks like Phil Johnston and John McArthur do? I read TeamPyro every once in a while and it saddens me that there are such angry people. Isn't Jesus supposed to bring us some joy?

Pragmatism is a problem, but John McArthur isn't the solution. Neither is Al Moeller or Phil Johnston. We need new folks who understand the nuance of theology and the importance of pragmatism.

Rob

Rob (and Bene):

I agree with you about some of the problems.

Do you think that the problem is theology, or is it something else?

As someone's said, we all do theology. The choice isn't theology or no theology; it's good theology or bad theology. I wonder if the real problem is something else? I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Hey Darryl,

I wonder if it's a culture thing? Liberals and Conservatives are obsessed with being right. (Me too). I wonder if we have a choice, sometimes, between being right and being loving? If my intention is to convince you that I'm right what am I willing to do to convince you? Am I willing to shame you? Am I willing to hurt you? How far am I willing to go to hear you say, "Rob you're right."

Could this true in our marriages, friendships and relationships in general? I wonder if Calvinism brings out this desire to be right with the emphasis on right Theology?

Perhaps it is a 2 John thing?

The elder to the elect lady and her children,whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth, because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever:

Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Father’s Son, in truth and love.

I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world,those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ,does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink. Instead I hope to come to you and talk face to face, so that our joy may be complete.

The children of your elect sister greet you.

I painted with a broad brush, thanks for being gracious.

I don't think it's just theology, I think it's human nature and culture-specific and egos and a need to make a name and a living.
It's competitive. North American evangelicalism is celebrity driven, desperate, I can't joke about that any more.

You are correct Darryl, there are humble, mature people doing the work of the kingdom in all streams, it is sloppy to imply otherwise.

I speak from watching talking and reading, so many of us who haven't the right skin colour, parts, education, income, citizenship attitude orlingo have no place at the table.

Is it our sin we don't want to even attempt approach anymore?

You did make it clear what you don't want or long for, I believe I understand you want, "A Gospel movement possible that allows diversity in these areas of doctrine within the broader evangelical movement."

A courageous and loving thing to long for.

That can only happen when insiders decide it can happen.
While your Canadian accent may have been diverse enough for mild amusement, your money was good, and your creds get you in the doors.
God forgive any of us who stomp on your hope.

Nick:

Good passage - love and concern for theology together.

Bene:

I don't think it will translate out of its context, but I really appreciated John Piper's challenge to not be seduced by good theology and all the comforts of a conference. He told us if our good doctrine doesn't make us delight in God more, it's wasted. And if it doesn't lead us to live risky lives of service, we've missed the point.

The speakers admitted that they're using the celebrity culture that they hate to accomplish a purpose. I'm glad they were transparent about this.

I appreciate your challenge. I think it's a necessary one.

We all bring different contexts to the table, as we should - this is more how I look at movements/engagement etc.

http://differences.dukejournals.org/content/vol18/issue3/#ARTICLES