My latest column at Christian Week:
A funny thing happened a few years ago. I always assumed that people who complain about church have a bad attitude. One day, I began to listen to complainers. To be sure, some do have bad attitudes. Others, though, are what I would call redemptively discontent.
The discontent part comes easily. Anyone who has been in church for any time knows that churches can be good, but they can also be terrible: bad sermons, cranky Christians, ungodly pastors, and personality conflicts. Until I listened to the complainers, this was my only category of discontent with the church.
I now realize there is a second category: those who are redemptively discontent. People in this category experience discontent at a deeper level. They have grown weary of Christian subculture, a McDonaldized approach to spirituality, easy answers, formulaic sermons, Christian celebrities, pragmatism, marketing, and programs that promise more than they deliver, to name a few.
It’s easy to dismiss this group. Some are reactionary and a little, well, edgy. But I sense something different in them. They are far from perfect, but they love the church. They speak and act not because they want to abandon the church, but because they want the church to be transformed.
I’m meeting these people everywhere. Some are pastors of established evangelical churches who have inherited a model of ministry that seems out of step with a post-Christendom Canada. Rather than abandoning these churches, or criticizing those who led the church before in a different cultural context, they are loving the church through some tough questions.
Others are church planters. Rather than transforming established systems, they feel called to start something new. The best of these planters can’t imagine staying within an established ministry, but they have learned to bless, not criticize, traditional churches.
Some are theologians. I have a friend, a theologically minded pastor, who resonates with some of the concerns, but not answers, of the emerging church. He complains that he was voicing some of these concerns twenty years ago, and nobody listened. He is far from emerging, yet he longs for the church to be more.
Others are parachurch leaders. I met with one recently who told me that he is frustrated with the church, but is not prepared to badmouth the church or to give up. He longs for the church to change but can’t imagine how it will happen.
Still others are adrift. I think of a couple who are wrestling with some deep issues, such as how to be a faithful church in a post-Christendom world. I have seen tears as they talk about their hopes and prayers for the church. They are still searching for a church that is on a similar quest.
Although this group is comprised of people off all ages, many in their twenties and thirties are struggling with the church they have inherited. It’s normal for those of this age to wrestle with what their parents have left them, but I sense something more is at work. Many are quietly dropping out of church, and those who stay have many questions and want the church to be more.
This group is everywhere. A couple of years ago, I called some key leaders in my church to read Reggie McNeal’s book, The Present Future. McNeal is redemptively discontent, and I wondered if it would be too much for my friends. I was surprised how much they embraced some of the questions and issues McNeal raises in this book.
The redemptively discontent are all around us, and I am starting to see them as God’s gift to the church. I pray for them, that they would stay redemptive and never become just complainers. I listen to them, because I think they have much to say.
I pray that God would even raise up more of them, because it just may be that what we need now is all types of people in all types of churches who are redemptively discontent, prodding and hoping and praying for the church to be more. I hope they their numbers will grow, that their voices will be heard, and that most of all their prayers for the church will be answered.
Darryl, I'm still looking for an example in our area of a so called emerging church that God is using powerfully to transform lives. Any come to mind?
What do you see as the answer for all these redemptively discontent?
George:
This article isn't really about the emerging church per se.
I think they should pray and work toward the church recapturing its identity and mission.
If the "redemptively discontent" are dropping out of church and staying there, that doesn't make much sense. I don't understand how one could be redeemed and not be in a church somewhere, that doesn't fit. Jesus Christ is all about building His church and if a redeeemed person leaves a church and stays out there is a problem.
I can see someone leaving church for a time but it doesn't make sense that they would stay out. If I'm following Christ, I'm going to be relying on His Spirit to guide me to where He wants me to be.
George:
Yes, this group is far from perfect. They are flawed and have all manner of things wrong with them.
And by the way, many of them are part of churches.
I think my point is that one of God's gifts to the church right now is that he is raising up people all over who have a passion to see the church return to Christ, and that is a good thing we can sometimes miss.
The people that God is raising, would you say they are the ones that have left the "traditional" church and have started these "emerging" churches?
George:
The article says, "I'm meeting these people everywhere," and then I describe who they are. Many of them aren't part of the emerging church.
Where are they going?
George:
You might have only skimmed the article; it says, "This group is everywhere." I've met a few from Harvest Oakville; one is a police officer who sometimes comments here.
I thought you had a policy that you didn't name churches:) But hey its ok with me.
Its very interesting to me all this talk of church. I know you have written a lot about the emerging church and are hooked up with the Resonate guys so I appreciate the dialogue with you.
I've been dialoguing with some of them on their blogs from time to time and its been interesting. They might not think so though.
You mentioned my church Harvest Oakville. Its been amazing to see how God has worked in our church in the past 2 years since we started.
I remember you commenting some time ago about how you heard we were stealing people from other churches and I thought a lot about those comments. I knew that wasn't true but I also knew that was some peoples' perception. Some churches saw some of their people leave and heard that they had come to our church and so the perception was that we stole them.
Through all this some things have become very clear to me. The people I talk to at our church that have come from other churches all basically say the same thing, myself included. There was something missing where they were at and the approach was much more man centered than God centered. The fear of man was greater than the fear of God. It was all about keeping the people happy at the expense of honouring God and going deeper with Him.
Since dialoguing with the emerging church folks I certainly don't get a sense that they are returning to God honouring ways. My impresssion is that social activism is much more important to them than honouring and loving God in holy and righteous living. You just need to look at their language to see that. Another impression I have of them, and this is a general statement I know there are exceptions, is that they believe if they do enough good works that God is ok with them. Not at all concerned about sin and you never read words like holiness, righteousness, sanctification, godliness God-honouring, basically all those things that God calls us to if we profess to have been redeemed by Him.
Anyways, all that came to mind as I read your article. It came to mind as I recalled certain discussions that I've had with you and other Resonate folks.
Always appreciate the dialogue Darryl, I got a lot to learn.
Just read this in my devotions this morning and how true it is
Jeremiah 6: 16 This is what the LORD says: "Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.
"I don't understand how one could be redeemed and not be in a church somewhere, that doesn't fit. Jesus Christ is all about building His church..."
I find it interesting that some people can judge the redemptive status of others, kind of like they are God, or something. And doesn't the Bible say that the "Church" that Jesus is building is/are His people, not a building or an institution?
I can't speak for all "social activists," but some I know personally believe they are doing what the Lord called them to do.
Anyway, this kind of judgemental attitude is one of the reasons I am avoiding the institutional church like the plague. "I am holier than you are because I have a deeper walk with Him than you do."
Says Who, exactly?
Hey Arthur, we could probably go back and forth big time on this topic eh? Not enough time though.
I wasn't judging the redemptive status of others, you need to read that again. I was saying I didn't understand why they wouldn't be in a church.
If the "social activists" are doing what they are called to do that's great. That would mean they are doing it out of their relationship with Christ.
But there are also those who profess to follow Christ, who would have us believe that it is their good works that justify them before God. They would also suggest that there can be those in this world, who even though they reject Christ, are justified before God because of their good works.
Its true, they actually say that.
"I don't understand how one could be redeemed and not be in a church somewhere, that doesn't fit."
Seems plain enough to me. Translation: If one doesn't attend a church somewhere one isn't redeemed.
"If a redeeemed person leaves a church and stays out there is a problem."
ABSOULTELY! But do not be so quick to judge that the problem lies solely with the ones leaving.
Yes, George, there are people who say that their good works will get them into heaven. They are mistaken and mislead.
There are also those who say that one cannot be saved and still smoke (or use nicotine in any form,) or drink alcohol in any amount. There are those who say that women cannot wear their skirts more than two inches above their knees and still be saved, that they must wear hats to church, must never wear trousers, or mix their fabrics, or work outside the home or have leadership over men.
There are still those who claim that men should ensure the obedience of their wives and children to their every whim. Those who avoid anything contemporary, (music or otherwise,) because it isn't "traditional," those who think one cannot go to movies or dance with anyone other than their spouse, those who believe that if you belong to anything other than The First Church of Blankety-blank, you are going to hell.
All are equally mistaken and or mislead.
"Another impression I have of them, and this is a general statement I know there are exceptions, is that they believe if they do enough good works that God is ok with them. Not at all concerned about sin and you never read words like holiness, righteousness, sanctification, godliness God-honouring, basically all those things that God calls us to if we profess to have been redeemed by Him."
The disclaimer: "this is a general statement I know there are exceptions," is belied by the words: "Not AT ALL concerned," and "you NEVER read words..."
THAT is why I and many like me don't have the stomach for what you call church. To say nothing about the programs, the labelling, the denominationalism and the senseless discussions about non-essential doctrines.
You, and many like you, may choose to believe what you like about my state of holiness, sanctification, godliness, God-honouring, God fearing walk with The Lord based on whether I smoke or drink or dance or wear a suit to "church," (or whether I go to church at all,) or whatever arbitrary standard you wish to impose on me. Thank God I don't have to answer to any of YOU! I will rely on God's judgement, thank you all very much! At least He is merciful and forgiving, where so many of YOU are not.
Do I condone sin because I rely on God's grace? NO, I do not. But I will continue to rely on God to work in my life, changing me, conforming me to His Word in His time according to His plan for me, and not on any institutional ideas of what that plan should be or look like.
Don't get me wrong. I love Jesus and His Word. I love praising and worshipping Him. I want to be like Him. I love God the Father, and welcome The Holy Spirit's influence and presence in my life. Just for God's sake do not call me a christian if being one means I have to conform to your ideas of sanctification and holiness.
Continue to argue the pros and cons of "Emergent" versus "Emerging," "Traditional" versus "Contemporary." Split your churches and confuse the people over whether healing is for today or not, or whether "speaking in tongues" is still viable or necessary. Discuss the benefits of "Post-modern" or Post-christendom." Wear sack-cloth and ashes, rend your garments over whether preaching is "Theocratic" or "Anthropomorphic."
All very interesting and beneficial, I am sure. But meanwhile souls are being lost for lack of somebody to love and accept them as they are, where they are - and tell them that God loves them as they are, where they are as well, and that Christ died for the propitiation of their sins.
THAT, Sir, is the Gospel, plain and simple. Christ did not say "Go and conform the world to your denomination's ideas of sanctification and holiness." He said, "Go, and preach the Gospel, Love one another as I have loved you." And while He did command us to make disciples, He did not command anyone to go and change the people according to the standards imposed by THEIR understanding of Scripture.
If this actually gets posted, please don't take anything I have said as a personal attack. The statement was made that "I was saying I didn't understand why they wouldn't be in a church." Now you know at least why I, (I don't presume to speak for anyone else,) choose not to attend one, as much as I long for fellowship.
Arthur:
I am with you a good deal of the way, even when you rant about things I talk about. ;)
The two bottom line questions for me are:
Does a category even exist for an individual Christian who is not connected to the Church in some way? I don't care how (house church, Anglican church, organic church, Baptist church) and I'm not saying that it won't be frustrating, but there is no such thing as being a follower of Christ without being part of His people.
Second: What do you tell your coffee shop buddies? I would think it would be hard to tell them about Jesus and then admit that churches are all a waste of time and a bunch of hypocrites.
Hey Arthur, I didn't have you or anyone in particular in mind in making the comments, just impressions I have of dialogues I've been in and stuff I've read, especially on emerging or liberal blogs.
"Don't get me wrong. I love Jesus and His Word. I love praising and worshipping Him. I want to be like Him. I love God the Father, and welcome The Holy Spirit's influence and presence in my life. Just for God's sake do not call me a christian if being one means I have to conform to your ideas of sanctification and holiness."
I love that and yea don't conform to my ideas about sanctification and holiness conform to God's.
I'm so thankful for His Word aren't you? Its all in there and if our heart's desire is to know Him and make Him known, His Spirit will guide us as we seek to live for Him.
Have a great day Arthur and you know what invite is always open
"Does a category even exist for an individual Christian who is not connected to the Church in some way?"
Why does there need to be a "category" for them at all? I don't categorize people, (at least I try not to,) I just accept them.
"There is no such thing as being a follower of Christ without being part of His people."
I agree. I AM part of His people. I just choose to find my fellowship outside of the institutional church.
"What do you tell your coffee shop buddies?"
I tell them that God loves them as they are, where they are, and that Christ died for the propitiation of their sins.
I also encourage them to find a body of believers who can help them grow in the knowledge of the Lord and His Will for their lives. That may sound paradoxical, given my own reluctance to go to "church," but I leave the choice up to them without discussing my own feelings.
Aplologetics, Exegisis, etcetera aren't my forte, and neither is it my job to get into all that stuff. I just trust that God will lead them where HE wants them and leave that up to Him.
I also do not presume to judge them based on what they wear, or whether they smoke or drink, whether they have tattoos or body-piercings, whether or not they are as "Holy" as I think they should be. That isn't my job either.
Arthur:
You are part of a large group who are leaving the church out of frustration, and to a large extent I understand why.
Here's my underlying concern: I think this reflects a very individualistic view which is unbiblical and the product of the Enlightenment. My other concern is that the best presentation of the Gospel is supposed to be people who are actually living it - never alone, but together.
So, in the end I don't see leaving the church as the solution, any more than pretending that there aren't problems. Both ends of the spectrum won't get us where we need to go.
Arthur:
I'm reading Exiles by Mke Frost. It's a great book. Read this the other day:
"Exiles will not sit in churches passively and put up with the phoniness, but neither will they simplistically take their bat and ball and go home. Too many people, alienated and angered by the contemporary church, have just left, contributing to the decline of the Western church. Exiles might leave (or be thrust out), but if they do so, it will be to forge the way, to fashion communities of honesty, openness, hospitality, and genuine love."
I agree. Staying in phony churches isn't an option, but neither is leaving and having occasional casual fellowship with other believers. We've got to figure out ways to form these communities of forgiveness and love, so that when people ask what the Gospel is all about, they can point to us as groups of people who show what the coming Kingdom looks like.
Darryl,
My individulaistic view has been duly noted, although I consider myself anything but "Enlightened."
"When people ask what the Gospel is all about, they can point to us as groups of people who show what the coming Kingdom looks like." The irony of this statement is two-fold.
First, at this moment I would be hard-pressed to point to any Church group who shows what the coming Kingdom looks like. Not that I don't believe any exist, just that in my neck of the woods they are extremely hard to come by.
Second, I almost hesitate to say this, but: The one group of people with whom I have ever fellowshipped that displayed the least amount of judgementalism towards, (and the most amount of acceptance of,) their own people were.....
The Mormons.
Their Theology and understanding of Scripture is way out of whack, but their love and acceptance of others in their midst is exemplary.
Only in the RLDS? Pity!