Darryl's Blog
Why we shouldn't legislate Christian values
My post on politics the other day has sparked some discussion. For instance, George asks: "Wasn't our country founded on Christian principles and values? Do we as Christians now have a problem with a government that would encourage policy based on Christian values?"
George isn't alone. I grew up thinking this. These were in the days of Christendom, when it seemed reasonable to expect Christianity to hold a favored standing in society.
Now I am on record stating that Christians should work to promote justice, but they shouldn't be passing laws to impose Christian values on the rest of society. This hits all kinds of issues, such as same sex marriage. Why should we expect society at large to hold a Christian view of marriage at all? Why not also pass laws to enforce other Christian beliefs?
Michael Horton explains some of the reasons why it's dangerous to try to legislate Christianity. This article is dated and it's American but it's relevant to this discussion:
What defines us politically is one thing, what defines us as Christians is a totally different set of questions. It is not to say that public policy issues shouldn¹t be important to a Christian. Quite the contrary, every Christian ought to be interested in public policy issues, but as citizens, not as the church making stands on what the gospel is. Yet to often in the past twenty years we have equated the gospel with a particular cultural agenda...We're offensive for all the wrong reasons while we leave the gospel itself devoid of its power. The minorities, the feminists, the gays, and others who practice immoral lifestyles--people with whom we may not agree--will not give us a hearing at the end of the twentieth century. Not because we have preached the gospel and called them to repentance and they don't like that, but because we have framed our communication with them in terms of a war for social, political, and cultural control...The Holy Spirit will not convert a single soul through moral crusades. He will not convert a prostitute through Senate bill 242, or change the direction of the homosexual by prime-time denunciation from moralistic preachers. Yes, we are called to preach the good news and to call men and women to repentance, but that is not a political issue, that is not ultimate a moral issue, that is a gospel issue. Repentance can no more be coerced by the state than faith; both are the gracious gifts of God...
We cannot impose our will on the American electorate anymore and we will have to stop it. We¹ll have to stop shaking our fists at our neighbors. We must call the church to a cease-fire with the world over gays in the military and engage in spiritual warfare for their hearts and minds for the first time perhaps in forty years. Second, we'll not only have to recover gospel proclamation, but we'll have to learn how to interact positively again with our culture. When the church was facing a really hostile culture in the first century--a lot more hostile than ours--Paul instructed the early Christians to "Make it your ambition to lead a quite life to work well with your hands so that you may win the respect of outsiders and have enough to give those in need."
Couldn't have said it better. (Thanks to Ken Davis for telling me about Horton's treatment of this subject.)
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BTW, we live in a democracy - Christians can't force anything.
What if I said Gay Marriage was a Justice issue? Isn't perverting an institution which God Himself defined an injustice to Him? Isn't the future generations of kids who will be taught by the Law that Gay Marriage is normal unfair to them? What about the future Bible believing Clergy who will be forced to marry gays or face persecution? Isn't this unjust? What about all the heterosexual married couples who feel slighted because the definition of marriage has been dropped down a notch - this isn't fair. What about the kids that will be adopted into such "families", this isn't just to them.
Also, let's not forget, reinforing gays that their lifestyle is normal is unfair to them because afterall it is dangerous to them.
Jacob:
Many Christians do express a desire to pass laws, even though they are a minority.
I suppose you could argue against gay marriage from a justice perspective, but most Christians don't go there; they usually just state that they don't believe in it because of their faith. Can you successfully build such a case? I haven't seen it done yet.
There are many things that are sinful and harmful to people but you can't outlaw all of them.
I have really enjoyed Jim Wallis' book "God's Politics: Why the rights got it wrong and the left doesn't get it."
Jacob, I think in some ways you're right, not a huge fan of the tone of your comment (but I can't see the body language so I don't know your real intent). I think Christians need to be issues based voters. When it comes to war, we must be on the side of peace. When it comes to Capitalism, we must be on the side of the poor. When it comes to taxes we can't forget the widows and orphans. When it comes to morality, Christians need to get their own ship in order so they have the moral authority to call others into question. We haven't done a great job of this so far, especially in the church. I suggest we should all err on the side of grace. But then what do i know.
Rob
Darryl,
Perhaps most don't but I think arguments along these lines are very valid and can be very powerful. It also doesn't bother me when Christians vote according to what they belive to be morally right or wrong but unfortunately we're not going to win many battles that way anymore because we're such a minority.
BTW, if this came down to a referendum are you saying that you'd vote in favour of gay marriage?
Rob,
I am really puzzled as to why you'd question my "tone" I re-read my post several times and don't see it.
BTW, I too believe Christians should be issues based voters although I wouldn't necessarily agree with all of your conclusions.
"If this came down to a referendum are you saying that you'd vote in favour of gay marriage?"
No, I think I'd vote for them to get out of the marriage business, or to allow civil unions.
My problem with Christians trying to enact laws to enforce our values is that it quite simply doesn't work.
Legislation doesn't change anything... it merely points out what is considered illegal and proposes punishment for breaking the law. No amount of legislation is going to keep criminals from possessing guns, for example.
Would it not be better to preach the Gospel of God's Love and Redemption, and allow the Holy Spirit to change the HEARTS of those whose values are contrary to God's Will?
What little I know or have read about church history suggests that when men of God preached the Gospel with Love and Authority, whole cities and countries turned to Christ, and the morality of generations was positively affected. What mere COURT can make that assertion?
Jacob,
I probably read it wrong. Didn't mean to offend.
Darryl,
I agree. Marriage is an institution that has traditionally come from the 'Church.' Not a fan of marriage, but I would vote for civil unions. (BTW, the vast majority of gay marriages are in city halls of by JP's, so it's probably semantics.)
Rob
Another thought.... always happens after I have already clicked the "post" button...
Mankind has always had GOD'S LAW, haven't we? Has even that changed our depravity one iota?
No. And if you disagree I would have to ask you to explain to me why, if it has, did Jesus still have to die?
Jacob: Read this and then tell me the consequences.
Sorry it's .pdf.
http://tumseattle.org/pictures/GB%20andtheriseofchristianfascismrejune04.pdf
I think the whole issue circulates around what we believe is going to change our society into something that pleases God. There is no doubt that Christians must be involved in the culture for its betterment. This includes political involvement of various kinds. We live in a democracy that allows us to try to influence our leaders and the laws of the land for good. But we should never think that the key element for turning our culture around is Christians in power or overtly Christian laws. The early church turned their culture around while not even being a legal entity, under a cruel dictatorship and opposed by the religious powers that they were most concerned to win to Christ. With no legislation on their side and no opportunity to voice in any way beyond personal testimony they grew from 3000 on the day of Pentecost to over 10% of the empire in 300 years - before Constantine legalized their faith. We have the same power that they did - the Gospel. Let's not rely on things less powerful, even if it seems more influential.
Excellent comments Ken. I love your focus on salvation as being the true method of changing culture. That ultimately is the root cause.
Hey, Jacob.... isn't that what I was implying as well? Where's MY pat on the back? (Kidding, just Kidding.)
Seriously, though.... our job as Christians isn't to force our standards on anyone else. It is our job to point them to Jesus. And God's job to change them.
:) thadda boy Arthur!!
I guess Ken's comment hit home because he was stressing more of an AND approach not an OR approach.
Jacob, I was trying to be gentle while I was slapping you upside the head..... ;)