Sunday
Apr092006
Evolving Church notes and pictures
Sunday, April 9, 2006 at 8:01PM 
Originally uploaded by nathancolquhoun.
I've posted my notes from yesterday's conference in HTML and PDF (requires free Acrobat Reader).
Nathan has also posted some great pictures from the evening.
Reader Comments (17)
Thanks for the notes, Darryl.
Darryl, I wasn't sure whether to ask you if you're the Energizer Bunny (all day at a conference yesterday, host Resonate Echo with Brian McLaren last night, preach today and then get the notes out) but I'd rather just say thanks - for the 2nd time today. You rock, Double D!
So is it safe to say Darryl, that you are becoming more and more impressed with the message that McLaren and those in the emerging church are bringing? I was thinking about your get together with McLaren at your church, for some reason I thought it was going to be tonight. I was going to ask you if you would ask McLaren a question on my behalf. The question is one that I find many liberal Christians and certainly most in the emerging church unable to answer. That's certainly been my experience anyway. The question is this: Jesus said this in Matthew 7 :13"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. or as the New Living Translation states it: 13"You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell[a] is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose the easy way. 14But the gateway to life is small, and the road is narrow, and only a few ever find it. So the question is what did Jesus mean by that and how does one know if they are on the narrow road? How does one know if they are part of the FEW? Knowing McLaren, how do you think he might answer that question?
"So is it safe to say Darryl, that you are becoming more and more impressed with the message that McLaren and those in the emerging church are bringing?" No, not really. I think it's safe to say I like some of the questions being asked, and I'm moved by the desire to live the Gospel holistically (which isn't unique to the ec). I was reminded of some things on the weekend and it was helpful, but no, I don't consider myself an emergent groupie. Too bad you weren't at the event to ask the question. I wouldn't presume to answer for McLaren.
His definition of repent is rethink? We just have to rethink things? Took that from your notes. Is it true he thinks we also have to "rethink" what the Bible teaches about hell? Even Pernell thinks that's kind of cool I guess as he wrote this on his blog: "I am picking Brian McLaren up from his hotel in the morning. I will greet him with: "so, you don't believe in Hell, huh? Well, you're going there." Okay, I won't. But it would be funny." Is that the New Kind of Christian messaage these days, there's no hell, its all good its all about love man, Good Friday you say, what's that all about again? Why did Jesus have to die?
I don't know about McLaren's definition of repent, but the Greek word does mean a change of mind that leads to a change in living. I haven't read McLaren's book on hell; it's on its way as we speak. You may want to pick that up and read it. I'll lend it to you when I'm done if you want. Too bad you couldn't have been here to ask McLaren questions!
George, you seem to be very intent on reading and understanding the scriptures, perhaps you should read through the gospels and Jesus' interactions with the Pharisees and see if anything seems familiar. Also, as an emerging church leader in a Weslyan church movement, I resent your comment equating emerging church folks with liberal Christians (if that's how you intended it - I realize that miscommunication happens on the net, if so, sorry). I personally have no problem talking about what I believe about Jesus, or the church, or specific passages of scripture, or theology, or anything else with regards to faith. However, I will do so only in the context of a relationship - not to justify myself to someone I don't know. I would say that many followers of Jesus who are authentic about their faith and concerned about the Kingdom, would say the same thing. Faith without a relationship is simply religion... that shouldn't be too hard to agree with. Perhaps you should make friends with people who are different from you, you may learn something... and so might they. What is you get out of throwing questions at people like that? Do you thik it makes them accountable? Do you think this is something Jesus wants you to do? Just my two cents. Darryl, sorry to take all your comment space.
By the way George, my comment on my blog about hell was a sarcastic one, because Brian has taken a verbal beating for his beliefs on things like hell even though he's never defended himself and said what he believes. And hey, if you're reading my blog, why can't we be friends? You're obviously interested in me or our church, right?
"George, you seem to be very intent on reading and understanding the scriptures, perhaps you should read through the gospels and Jesus' interactions with the Pharisees and see if anything seems familiar." Always the first comment from emerging church folks towards someone who might challenge them on some stuff. No Pernell I'm not interested in your church in particular. I might come visit you sometime though, I'd be interested in listening live to an emerging church pastor. I am interested in what is going on in Hamilton and I know that's where you are. Its interesting to me, while you guys were at your conference, I attended the Downpour conference at Copps Coliseum and I would think the two would have been worlds apart in terms of the philosophy of ministry. I heard the most passionate message from Joe Stowell about always keeping the cross of Christ before our eyes. When you consider what Christ has done for us by going to the cross, the perfect lamb of God, who died for us, if you truly appreciate what that is, how can you joke about a very real place called hell. Then to read you guys joke about hell and question if it even exists is disgraceful to say the least. If there's no hell Pernell, what are you saved from? What does eternal life mean? What does hell mean? The more I learn about the emerging church (sorry you were so offended for the link with liberals-my bad)the more questions I have about what it is you guys actually believe. As we enter this week leading up to Good Friday and then Easter Sunday do you guys get to the basics about that in your churches. Do you actually tell people that yes Jesus Christ did come into the world to take away our sin and that he died in our place so that we could be set free? You're an emerging church leader Pernell do you believe that? What do you believe about sin and repentance and the reason for Christ coming in human flesh. Pernell, the question above about the broad and narrow road how would you answer that?
Hey Darryl, I just read the Challies account of your night with McLaren. Interesting. No Bibles, no prayer? I appreciate what he says here: "Throughout the evening, boldness was absent. The faith of the emergents, the postmodern faith, is a faith that is devoid of boldness before God. It is timid, angry, tentative, questioning. It is not a faith of assurance and boldness. It emphasizes the unknowability of God more than what God has revealed to us about Himself. The faith McLaren commends is a faith that always questions, always doubts. It seems that the only faith McLaren hates is the faith of a person who knows what he believes and is convicted by Scripture and by plain reason that what God has revealed is truth--true truth. As others have observed, the real enemy of the Emerging Church is conservative, biblical Protestantism. McLaren will commend anything or anybody, it seems, except those who have a faith built upon the truths revealed in the New Testament epistles."
George, I was sure to include "Weslyan" in my description above so that you could understand my theological background a little. I believe in Hell and repentance and Jesus being the only way, etc. mY comment about hell on my blog had nothing to do with I believ or don't believe. I was making a comment about an issue Brian has taken a beating for (a beating from brothers and sisters of The Way). The thing is, George, not all emerging church folks believe the same things. We come from all walks, all denomionations, all christian faith traditions, etc. Some are evangelical. Some are charismatic. Some are reformed. Some are catholic. And likely some are liberal... although I don't know of any. You can't lump us into the same group. Here's my churches doctrinal statement. This should tell you what we think of Easter and the glorious cross of Jesus, who died and rose again, so you and I... and all of creation might actually live. http://www.bible.ca/cr-Salv-Army.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.bible.ca/cr-Salv-Army.htm
Hey, thanks for that Pernell. You're right, you emergers are all over the place. Just going through all you Resonate guys sure illustrates that. I guess that can make one wonder how people with such huge differences can be linked together. I'm trying to understand how someone who is saved could be linked with folks who would deny the existence of hell. There's a ton of false teaching out there and the need for discernment is great. I still think the joking about it is in bad taste, but hey that's me. I had some interesting dialogue with a Resonate buddy of yours on the west coast lately on this very topic. Its interersting to me how it keeps coming up. If you really are all about those 11 articles of faith and teach them, well that's great. Cheers
Hi George, I don't know that I'm aligned with anyone who doesn't believe in hell. I'm aligned with people who are trying to understand the biblical teaching on hell. That's a big difference. I won't know if I agree with McLaren on hell until I read his book. I'm looking forward to it.
Is that like a hard thing for people to understand - the biblical teaching on hell? All one has to do is just look at Jesus's teaching on it alone, its pretty clear don't you think? Broad is the road that leads to hell and most people (I was, by God's grace I no longer am) are on it, narrow is the road that leads to eternal life and only a few find it. What's to understand about that, its very clear. For those of us who are on the road to eternal life, maybe we should be a little more concerned with helping others get on the same road we're travelling.
George: Don Carson wrote a book called "The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God". Bet you didn't know it was a difficult doctrine. I didn't! There are many doctrines which are both easy and simple. I certainly like simplicity but I also like people who go a bit deeper. I don't know if I will like McLaren's book or not, but I'd like to see how he works through some of the texts. I'm sure I'll let you know.
Darryl, Pretty soon you're going to have to admit you're one of us.
Pernell, just curious, could you come up with a definition of what it is that you are? What would you say the difference is between a person who professes to be a born again, Bible believing Christian (say conservative or fundamental if you like) and a professing emergent Christian? Thanks