Thursday
Jul082004
Questions I'm asking
Thursday, July 8, 2004 at 7:18AM This post is from the defunct blog "Dying Church"
Pastoring takes a lot of energy. I can put up with a lot if I believe in the mission of the church. The mission we're living, though, is not always the mission Jesus gave us: to make disciples. It's easy to lose sight of that mission and to think that the mission of a church is to keep its members happy, and to look successful. Spence Burke talks about how it's easy to move from being a minister to an ad-minister. I'm asking a lot of questions which make it harder to find that energy. I believe that other people - pastors and church members alike - are asking similar questions. A question isn't an answer. But here are some questions I'm asking:Are Sunday mornings really accomplishing what we think they are? Why do they take such a disproportionate amount of the church's energy? Is anyone else noticing the number of godly people who are not backsliding, but are finding it increasingly harder to function within the evangelical church as it is? How much tweaking will it take to get back to mission? How do we move beyond tweaking to deep change and repentance? Is anyone else wrestling with these questions? Is it safe?Update: LT posts similar questions.
Reader Comments (10)
I have mentioned to you before, how that I have sensed a call to ministry from the Lord, and one of the hesitations I have is what you are talking about. The fact that our pastors are spending too much time running programs and trying to mediate between what this person wants and what another person wants. I must say this can be very draining on a pastor and maybe the cause of many pastors getting burned-out. I firmly believe that the role of a pastor should be prayer and meditation upon God's Word. Not just preparing the weekly sermon but full time everyday. Lay people and other church leaders should be involved in things such as visitation, disputes, meetings, and making operating descisions for the church. We tend to approach the pastor's job description as, "that's what we pay him to do", we attend church and then deligate, our own responsibilities toward the body of Christ, on the shoulders of the pastor. I also want to echo some of my earlier comments on your other blog. We are called to holiness! If we meditate upon God's holiness, and see how we measure up, I think we would all say, as the greatest prophet had said, "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty." Isaiah 6:5 Remeber what happened to Moses when he saw the back of God?...his face was so brilliant the people had to cover it. We all need to respond to His command "Be holy, because I am holy!". This is how I believe we will change.
Peter, the way you write is an indication of your call to the ministry. (I think anyways) I talk to so many people within church (my church)that express your sentiments about holiness and how there is such a sense that God is calling His church back to holiness. Thats what I think is the problem with todays church in so many places. There is so much consumer Christianity going on. There is so much of the world within the church. I have some questions too Darryl. They come from reading blogs of emerging church type leaders. 1. Where is the call to repentance? I don't see it in the equation yet the gospel is all about that. In 5 of the 7 letters to the churches in the Book of Revelation there is a call to repent because of what the church had become and what they had allowed in. I wonder if God might be calling church to repent today. 2. Why is there so much negative discussion. In my new walk with God I am just so grateful for what He has done in my life and daily pursue Him. I want to know Him more. More of Him, less of me. He is so great. He reveals more and more each day. I am so thankful. I also know that my responsibiliy in all this is to live a righteous life and walk in holiness. As Peter quotes above "Be holy as I am holy" says Almighty God. Where is the call to righteousness in the emerging church? 3. Why is there no discussion on how we compromise ourselves with respect to living a holy life. I don't see that in the emerging church discussion and when I raise the question nobody wants to talk about it. I think its because so many people are compromised and maybe don't even necessarily see it. That's where I think leadership comes in. Maybe a lot of church leaders need to self examine as to how they have allowed compromise into their own life and deal with it. When we go to God in prayer about that he will convict us of where there is compromise. We gotta be honest with Him though. I would suggest the compromise is in what we allow of the world ino our daily lives. "Gods power is not revealed in compromise" Heard that quote in church last Sunday and thought it was right on. I got more questions but I'm off to work. Have a great day everyone. God is so great.
George: Some good questons. 1. Where is the call to repentence? I think you're reading it. This whole blog is based on our need to repent and die to ourselves, not just individually but as churches. I'm not alone. 2. Why is there so much negative discussion? Because repentance demands that we confront what's wrong. It's easier to ignore the problems, but that's not honest. 3. Why no focus on holiness? I'm not sure which blogs you're reading. I'm pretty sure there is not a focus on traditional boundary markers, but I'm reading a lot of concerns that holiness is bigger than not going to movies and not swearing. I see a lot of people trying to figure out how we can be holy by following Christ in all of life and in all of church. Keep asking. God is up to something.
First time commenting on this blog. I'm glad to see it back. =) As a pastor of a fellowship here in NJ (USA) I'm finding myself more and more questioning the direction we're heading as a fellowship. I don't think it's a bad thing to be feeling this way because I'm seeing more of a shift away from "institution" to community life where people can be authentic and vulnerable. I'm teaching through 1 Thess. and I keep asking myself, "What is our problem at the corporate level when it comes to reading the text and simply saying, 'we don't look like this and why not.'" It just doesn't seem to be clicking in the minds of people that God's design for a fellowship is clearly stated and described. What i'm noticing is that people aren't even interested in questioning the "traditions" that drive them year after year. I also think there is a huge problem presently with how leadership is viewed in the church. Most men who are entrusted with leading really don't lead. They eventully have to abdicate their responsibilities and decisions to a congregation who either "give the nod" or challenges the decisions that are made. Holiness, repentance, submission, etc. Absolutely essential in reclaiming this apostolic ethos. If leaders led with more of a concern on their own holiness it might just "ooze" out on others. Just rambling now...thx for the ear. =)
What about another meta question? Traditionally, we have considered going to church about getting right with God. Is it changing? Are we going to church to get right with others? (community) Are we going home (private space) to get right with God? Altar calls are not working. Any thoughts?
The problem is: making church about church, or for us pomos making church about a movement. Church should be about intimacy with Jesus, loving what he loves, doing what he did. This will bring renewal.
Darryl Go for it. Keep asking those questions. They are the sort the traditional church needs to face and seriously grapple with. Cool. Lucy
I think that a lot of why pastors have trouble leading and end up trying to appease the people is because of the way that they are paid. When a church calls a pastor they try to choose one that will do what they want. The pastor is then viewed as the CEO of the church. If he's not doing what we want then we can boot him out with essentially a vote of non-confidence. This makes it very difficult for a pastor to lead a church in a direction that it doesn't want to go. It's as though the pastor is a horse and the church is the rider. The pastor can technically take the rider where it wants but if it goes in the "wrong" direction the rider will reign it in the other way and if that doesn't work they'll get a new horse. Questions that I am asking: * Is the church as an institution salvagable or do we need to start over? * Why is there so much focus on form? Almost every church must have a service, bulletins, a hired seminary graduated pastor, a weekly sermon, overheads or powerpoint, cheesy advertizing, music style (this can either be too much focus on traditional or contemporary), art, etc. I suppose I know why this is. To focus more on holiness would require repentance as others have mentioned. * How can we help others see the light and turn towards God and repentance? * Why do so few people care about justice for the poor and oppressed of this world when it is a huge theme of the Bible and a passion of God's heart? I'm part of an infant church plant attempting to build itself on holiness and the heart of God. We're having a hard time getting people to join us because we challenge almost everything including eachothers lifestyles. I think that this is something sorely missing from the current church. We too afraid to point out that others could be doing things better then they currently are. Sure we're usually willing to deal with very blatent sin like sexual immorality but what about greed or jelousy? I know this need to be done in a loving manner but it need to be done period. The value of church is to be able to spur one another on towards love and good deeds. Thanks for this site. I've been searching the net for blogs or sites that are focused on raising up a holy church. They are few and far between. A lot of emmerging site but I'm not as interested in that. Same core different clothing. If anyone knows of gems would you mind emailing me? My address is rose2@mawhorter.org Rose
Has anyone become aware of churches that went from a single pastor to a multiple pastors arangement? A popular book on eldership (Biblical Eldership by Strauch) advocated such a plan.
I think Wortley Baptist in London, Ontario went with that approach, but I'm not aware of that many, actually.