Tuesday
Apr272004
Random notes from Velocity
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 11:51AM
The church is in trouble - Some individual churches may be doing fine, but the stats are in and the church in North America is in trouble. Our levels of effectiveness are so low that, in many cases, we could have more impact if we quit our churches and started working for IBM. The solution isn't tinkering - We've tried lower levels of change (reacting, restructuring, redesigning) but these aren't enough. We need to go deeper: to reframe (look at the loads of mental models and cultural assumptions we never question) and regenerate (ask questions about why we are asking certain questions; focus on the meta-questions) instead. There were very few "how-to's" at Velocity; the answers to the big questions are not at the pragmatic level. One size doesn't fit all - Or rather one size fits everyone poorly. What works at Westwinds won't work here. MapQuest (indigenous) leadership is key. The solution to your problem may not be in any book written; you might have to write that book. Creativity matters - Art and design are not for those who have ascended Maslow's hierarchy of needs and have nothing else to worry about. It is part of our essence; it's part of who God has created us to be. The more conservative the church, the more we've dissed art and sanitized our buildings (a product of rationalism). Art is the craving and yearning of the human heart. It may mean that our creative endeavors are not optional in ministry. We're in Act Five - What if we stopped viewing the Bible as an answer book to life, a source of knowledge, or as a rulebook? We often reduce it to a set of principles. What if, instead, we saw the Bible as the first four acts of a five-act play? Our job is to improvise the fifth act by submersing ourselves in the first four acts. Our job isn't to just learn the first four acts, but to prepare for living in the fifth act while honoring the first four. We're not called to mimic the early church, but see them as a model that helps us live God's call in our context. It's tough work - Engaging culture is relatively easy. Engaging theology is relatively easy. Okay, not easy, but doable. Engaging both culture and theology at the same time is difficult and necessary, and there seem to be few who are doing both. Still coming - Top books recommended by Ron at Velocity.
Reader Comments (20)
Darryl, sounds all so wordy. How about if the church just got back to basics and preached the Word, lifted high the name of Christ in worship, believed firmly in the power of prayer, and shared the good news of Jesus Christ with boldness. Do you think that might be a church that God could bless and use for His purposes?
I'd like to comment on that thought, George, if I may. I agree that a Church such as you describe sounds perfect and would certainly be a Church that God could bless and use for His purposes. However,.... and I hate to sound negative, but: However, SOMEONE would find SOME reason to criticize something about that church anyway. The Worship would be too contemporary, or failing that, too traditional. The leadership would not have enough women, or too many. The ladies would wear too much makeup, or the sharing of the Good News would be TOO bold and infringe on someone's rights. The Preaching of the Word would be too direct, or step on someone's toes. Whatever. We are talking about an imperfect world with imperfect people. The perfect Church would cease to be perfect the minute you and/or I walked in the door. I may have too simplistic an outlook on things, but I firmly believe that the ONLY solution is to seek out what God's plan is for our church, (whatever denomination or "flavour") in our situation, (whatever that may be) and to be obedient to Him. What did Samuel say to Saul? "To obey is better than sacrifice." 1 Sam 15:22 Why do we have to wring our hands; gnash our teeth; wear sack-cloth and ashes, and continually carp about what Richview or Hillcrest or the First Baptist of Pillsbury Lane is doing or not doing? What does God want you or me - US, - to do here and now for the people He has called us to serve? Maybe we should all collectively read Charlene's post entitled "In Unison" and go and meditate on that for a while.
George, there are many churches characterized by the qualities you describe that are in serious trouble. Every church has a set of assumptions that guide what they're doing. In many cases, these assumptions are wrong, yet go unquestioned. These can make us ineffective no matter how hard we pray or worship. Sure, we need obedience. But true obedience flows from good theology. And effective missiology flows not only from good theology but a good understanding of the culture.
A good understanding of it yes, but not a catering to it and being compromised by it. Culture that is.
A couple of quotes I came across today: "Paul saw people sinking toward Hell and did not talk of refining them, but of saving them from the wrath to come. He laid aside his prefereces to prevent prejudice; he submitted his will in things indifferent,and if humankind would but receive the Gospel, he raised no questions about forms or ceremonies. Are we possessed with the same all-absorbing desire? Jesus died for sinners, can't we live for them?" Charles Spurgeon. The Church has to face society and not turn its back on it. If you're facing away from someone and you're trying to talk to him, he can't hear you - you're mumbling; you're not interested. What you're saying is, "Come over here. It's better over here, " as opposed to saying, "I'm going to come to you - I'm interested in you; how can I serve you?" The days of "tell me" are over. The days of "show me" are in. Jim Stewert. Oh, what the heck....one more: At the gathering described in Mark's Gospel (Mark 2: 15 - 17), there is no record of Jesus sharing the Good News. He spent time with people - on their territory. ...They seemed to like having Him around. He obviously didn't inhibit them or judge them, or sit in a corner to avoid contamination. Jesus was able to break the conventions around Him without sinning. Mark Greene. I'm sorry, People. One of the reasons I am such a rabid NON-attender at Church services is the seemingly all-consuming desire of most of the people there-in to judge and condemn anything that doesn't fit into their idea of convention; theology; doctrine, and so on. I LOVE the Lord, but I was once asked to leave a Church because I dared attend Sunday Service in the best and cleanest clothes I had - a pair of blue jeans and a denim jacket. (Along with the other necessary articles of clothing, of course. ;^]) Darryl, you are my brother and a Pastor, and I both love and respect you and I am proud of you. I appreciate your sermons and have learned from them. They have given me cause for reflection and repentance. Never-the-less, it will be a very long time before I ever willingly enter into a denominational, dogmatic, institutional place of worship, be it pre- or post-modern; emerging; evangelistic; dispensational or whatever. I'm sick of all the political rhetoric.
Well Arthur no matter how sophisticated your justification for non-attendance at a local church how do you call yourself a Christian and knowingly go against Hebrews 10:24?
Hebrews 10:24 actually isn't about attending church services, although that's often how it's used (incorrectly, I might add).
Thanks Darryl. Allow me to take it from here. Kim: Hebrews 10:24 is actually a continuation of a series of ideas. The first 18 verses of chapter 10 deal with the inability of burnt offerings and sacrififice to take away sins, (verse 4)and goes on to proclaim that the Sacrifice made by Jesus is the only Sacrifice necessary. THEREFORE....(verse 19-21), let us draw near.... (verse 22). Let us hold fast....(Verse 23). And let us consider one another.... (verse 24,) not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some.....(verse 25). The rest of the chapter deals with the danger of drawing back into sin and the reliance on the law to save us. Verse 25 is an exhortation, not a legal requirement; a suggestion, if you will, that assembling together is a good thing for exhorting one another. I recognize also the benefits of meeting together with like-minded people, - although we do not always have to agree on everything. ("Like-minded" meaning people with a Love for God and Jesus, who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.) But, nowhere does it say that such a gathering has to be in a church or a synagogue or a temple. Such a gathering could be in a backyard, or a park, or a restaraunt, or kitchen, or my living room. Such a gathering need not be comprised of a crowd of people; merely one or two people would suffice. Such a gathering need not be organized with a couple of hymns, an offering, another hymn, a sermon......, it could be very informal, over a cup of coffee, or whatever. Fact is, I am sorry to say, I get more out of the informal gathering of people getting together to discuss what God is doing in their lives, or to pray for each others needs, or to worship together, or to read The Word together than I ever receive in an institutional setting. Please do not misunderstand me: I am not condemning all churches! There are many Churches that are excellent and many Churches are doing wonderful things. All I am saying is that THAT is not MY preference. If it is yours, so be it. That is great! Keep on keeping on! Personally, I am not interested in all the artificial do's and don'ts and endless discussion of things I consider non-essential. Like make-up, women in leadership, denominational doctrines, pre-, post-, or mid-Tribulation, sprinkling vs. dunking, etc., etc. All I am interested in is serving The LORD of The Church, and "Church" means ALL Christians everywhere, not the members of an organization meeting in a particular building. Of course there is more to Church than I have time to discuss here, but do you know something, Kim? Going to "Church" does not mean I am a Christian anymore than living in a garage means I am a mechanic. Acceptance of Jesus as my Saviour makes me a Christian! One final comment: Now herefore and forevermore let it be known that Darryl comes by his verbosity honestly! He and I are fruit of the same tree! Man, once I get started there is no shutting me up!
Arthur, You make some great points. The church can be very condemning and a very dry place at times. But, if we can't keep people like you in the local church, someone who understands the mission of the local church and why we're here, how will it ever change and become more effective. How will we be able to get it back on the right track? It is a huge challenge to work through the changes from the inside. People are resistant to change and won't feel comfortable doing it, but I truly believe that is what Jesus would do. He wouldn't give up on the local church, He would work to make it relevant. I'm not happy with some of the things going on in my local church, but rather than abandon it and watch it die a slow death, I feel it is worth trying to change and save from the inside out. It is a difficult task, and one that requires a lot of diligence, but like a marriage, we need to work through the issues and not just abandon the relationship.
Rick, Maybe you just have more intestinal fortitude than I do, and I commend you for it. On the other hand, I believe God created each individual with unique gifts and calls upon him/her to use those gifts to His Glory. I happen to have the gift of "gab"; I LOVE meeting people; talking to them; joking with them; teasing them. Much to my lovely wife's embarrassment at times, I will approach complete strangers and engage them in conversation...anywhere, anytime. If along the way I can interject a little Gospel; if I can find out about a need and try to help; if I can rejoice with them over a success/blessing in their lives; if I can lighten a load with a little humour, well, that's what I do best. I've attended Bible School, but I came to realize that I was not built for sermonizing or preaching. I am NOT a pastor, and I do not have a pastor's heart. It would be an enormous disservice to any congregation for me to try to act like one. My background has enabled me to be very sensitive to peoples' hurts and very understanding and accepting of people as they are - not as I would like them to be. I am as unconventional as they come, - just ask Darryl, - and my "wiring" makes me more effectual one-on-one. Maybe I should quit being critical of churches. Churches have a viable place in reaching people, and providing for their needs, as well. They just have a different approach, and reach a different "market" than can I.
Arthur, I respect your decision to not attend church, and believe it or not our concepts are not too much different. Especially after your last comment, you are exactly the type of person our churches need. What you are talking about is what is missing in today's church. There is very little one on one interaction, there is way too much preaching and not enough practicing, and far to many people who want to do church than want to be church. Please don't stop being critical of the church. Without critical thinkers the church won't change. I have to admit, I too have been very frustrated at things that go on in the church. I am a volunteer who runs the church's collegiate ministry and the Baptist Collegiate Ministry at a local college. It is clear to me that if we don't change the way we minister that soon we will only have 40somethings or older in our church (I am one of them). Yesterday I met with my Senior Pastor to present him with my vision to plant a new church in our area that specifically targets the emerging generation. He wasn't very positive, which I was expecting, but it was his answer that floored me. His reply was that he would think about it, but he is hesitant to do this because church planting isn't something that our church does very well. What? What he meant is that we don't do it well because there is no commitment to doing it at all. So, I am frustrated, but I also realize that there are others with a similar heart in our church and that is where change will start. If I leave, then my church won't have a voice for change, and there are too many good people there to give up on. If I stay there is a chance that I can start planting seeds that will make a small difference, and hopefully get us slowly moving in the right direction. I guess I can sum up my feelings with one of my Dad's old sayings. He used to say "Rick, you can't win the Lottery if you don't play". I feel the same way about change in the church. We can't change it and make it right if we aren't there.
Although this thread has gone way off topic, I want to add one note to what Arthur has said. I define the church a lot more broadly than a lot of people. I think you can participate in the life of the Church (big-C) without being part of an institutional church. I've even been challenged by some of the ideas of Liquid Church by Pete Ward. However, any way we chose to be the Church today is full of problems. Arthur's outlined the problems of being in an institutional chuch very well. But not being in an institutional church (as he suggests) is also a challenge. It's easy then to be isolated from other believers and unaccountable. I take the sacraments seriously enough that I would miss The Lord's Supper as well. There are many "one another" passages that are hard to fulfill if you're not regularly connected with other believers. A lot of Christ-followers who argue for this approach end up thinking they (alone) are the church, which I would question. I wish I could solve this problem. Neither way is really easy.
I agree that the gathered local church has its weaknesses and challenges but why is everyone like afraid to make the in-your-face observation, that for the Apostle's teaching in the New Testament a churchless christian is a misnomer, a grotesque aberration. Small c church fellowship for a Christian is not a mere consumer option anymore than praying or bible reading. It's a privilege and expressing your love and obedience.
I think we all agree that there is no such thing as a churchless faith, Kim. I guess the real question is what church looks like. You don't have to go to a building on a Sunday morning to be the church. It's one, but not the only, way.
Hey, everyone: Let me clarify something, and this will be my final comment on this subject. When I say I am a "rabid non-attender" of church services, I do not mean I will NEVER attend ANY church service. What I mean is that I choose not to be a MEMBER of an institution, and that I do not attend EVERY Sunday. I do have fellowship with other Christians for the express purpose of Worshipping; Praising; Praying; Reading the Word, and so on, on a fairly regular basis. I am not anti-church. I often NEED the corporate atmosphere that attending church provides. I merely am not at my best, nor am I as effective in what I believe God has called me to do, in that setting. I am only too aware that I need to be accountable to some form of Leadership. Please God, never, ever let it be said of me that I ever think I am The Church, or that I have all the answers! Man, sometimes I am so thick I do not even know what the questions are! Kim and Rick: I know where you are both coming from and I understand your points of view. I respect your decisions and your reasons for them. God Love you and Bless you both. Just please understand that, as Darryl has said, going to an institution on a particular day is only ONE way of being connected to The Church. It is just not the ONLY way ... and it doesn't happen to be MY way. Can we agree that despite our different viewpoints, we are still Christians; washed by the Blood of Jesus; purchased by His sacrifice on the cross, and all part of the family of God? That, to me, is all that matters ... not which denomination we belong to; or which edifice we attend; or how often.
Okay, so I lied! THIS is my final comment: Darryl, I count on people like you to keep me accountable and focused in the right direction. Please don't ever stop correcting me or challenging me.
I just read through this thread and what a great discussion. I agree with Rick, Arthur the local church needs guys like you for that one on one encouragement of people. I've already shared with you how I am part of a new church plant in Oakville called the Harvest Bible Chapel Oakville. We have a real commitment to seeing people using their various gifts to benefit the whole. We believe that if we stay committed to Christ and fully surrendered to Him that the people will come. We don't want just other churched people to come. We have a passion for those that do not know Christ. We have a passion to evangelize to our community and beyond. I personally have a passion for inner city mission work and when I think of all the possibilities there, in downtown Toronto particularly, I get fired up. I have dreams of being used by God to point people to Christ and assist in bringing about real life transformation. I believe God is so willing to bless our efforts if only we come to Him submitted and fully surrendered and willing to be used by Him. When I think about reaching out to the inner city people and in particular, to the alcoholics, to the homeless, to the crack addicts and addicts of all kinds, to the mentally ill, to the hookers, to the child abuse victims, to the wandering youth, I long to reach out to those people with the Gospel message that can transform lives. Arthur, as I think about inviting those types of people to church and as the Lord begins to send them our way, I know we would need more people like you to help with the one on one relationship building and encouragement. That's how I see church in our day, all of us growing in our commitment to Christ and wanting to be used by Him to effect change in people's lives. All of us using our own God given gifts together to help build Christ's church. Christ didn't just save us so we could go to heaven, He saved us in order to tranform us so we can then go out and serve Him by serving others and being used to bring them into that same glorious relationship that turns them into new persons. What a time we live in to really stand and work for Christ. We need guys like you Arthur, let me know what line of work you are in and I'll see what's available in Oakville.
"Why I like raw." Darryl thinks that by closing comments to his above mentioned post he can dissuade the more determined among us from having their say. WRONG!! Darryl, my Brother: Thank you so much for pointing me in the direction of Scott Williams! I have never met the guy, but I love him like a brother already! I could REALLY get into a church like the one he pastors! Reality Rocks, big time! If the Truth be told, one of the reasons ... probably the main reason... I do not see eye to eye with most institutional churches, is that I come from a background of drinking and drugging and sleeping around. At almost all of the churches at which I attempted to become involved, I was censured because they thought I would be a bad influence on the new members, and I was forbidden to teach a class or lead a home group. I am not in any way proud of my past behaviour, but I am who I am BECAUSE of the influences in my past. I AM proud to be accepted into the Family of God; to be thought worthy of Salvation, not because I deserve it, but because God loved me enough to send His Son to die for the propitiation of my sins. I am not worthy in and of myself. Jesus considered me worthy anyway! Oh, how I love Him for that! It has been said that the church needs people like me. Well, how about me now, People? Once upon a time I drank two two-fours a day! Once upon a time I smoked Marijuana, took Acid and Mescalline and Magic Mushrooms. Once upon a time I lived in Sin with the Skirt of the moment. Once upon a time.... well, we won't go into any more of that! Thank God that He still loved me enough to die for me! So what now? Am I still somebody God can use to reach the Lost? Am I still somebody capable of one-on-one encouragement of other people? Can I understand where people are coming from and thus help lead them in The Way? Or have I just eliminated myself from the pious, holier-than-thou, there-but-for-the Grace-of-God, religiosity that poses as Christianity? (Please, Oh, PLEEEEZE let the answer be "YES!") Scott Williams is my kind of guy. Honest. Open. Radical. Unconventional. Raw. Humerous. Fun. And REAL! Scott can reach other people who would not be caught DEAD in any "conventional" church. He makes no apologies for what God brought him out of, (although, like me, I am sure he sometimes hangs his head in shame and says: "OH GOD! Did I do THAT? Oh, Lord, have Mercy!") but instead casts his gaze on the Prize ahead, and helps others, who are just like he was, desire it, too. And Praise God for that!
Arthur, I guess these are the questions you were referring to in your email You said: So what now? Am I still somebody God can use to reach the Lost? Am I still somebody capable of one-on-one encouragement of other people? Can I understand where people are coming from and thus help lead them in The Way? Those questions were asked after you shared where you have been. I would say the answers are YES,YES,YES,YES I would say much more so than those who have been in church all their lives. I think there is nothing more amazing to see a transformed life in Christ become passionate to share. To testify as to the great work that God has done in your life. To reach out to those with whom we so related when we were not walking in the light. I referred in the email about what God has done through Jim Cymbala and the Brooklyn Tabernacle. Amazing life transforming stories. From the pit. From the drug addicts, hookers, homeless, mentally ill, transexuals, transvestites, homosexuals, bisexuals, you name it tons of former lost people from all walks now testifying to what God has done in their lives and how God has used the Brooklyn Tabernacle to minister to them. That's what its all about Arthur. I think. That's the kind of church I want to be a part of. Where's the church that is doing that in our area? Where's the church in Toronto that everybody knows, whether they be Christian or not, where God is working in such a powerful way. Arthur, as a police officer, who has been walking with Christ now for only three years, (before that I knew about Him but was basically a consumer of Christianity, not really saved but always wondering if I was)I drive the streets of Toronto, encountering those same kinds of people. People who, just like me before I was born again, don't know what it means to have a relationship with Christ. But oh, how their lives can change and dramatically so if they surrender to Him and begin to experience the freedom that can only be found in Him. I know there is some good work being done but I believe so much more can be done. I also believe with all my heart that God is beginning to do a new work in our area. I really do. I think there is a hunger among God's people for more. I think there are a whole lot of good Christians that are sitting in some pretty lame churches where they aren't really being challenged in their Christian walk to do more for the kingdom. I think that's where leadership comes in. And calling people to account for their walk with God. I think the people need to be stirred up to get up out of their comfortable seats, roll up their sleeves, and get on with doing some real work for the Lord, instead of just sitting there waiting to see what they are going to get out of it. I want to be part of a church that truly desires to be used by God to reach those people. I read what you have to say Arthur and I get such a sense that you have so much to offer. And precisely because of where you have been. I'm sure you ask the question all the time; Why me, why did God choose to change me in spite of everything I've done. I know I do. Everything for a reason Arthur, His master plan. Doesn't that blow you away? I think we should have one of those theology pub nights in our area somewhere like those Saskatchewan boys do. I'm doing too much of this computer stuff, I think it'd be great to discuss this kind of stuff in person with different Christians. We might not always agree, but if we are all committed to God's work I think we should as a Christian community be striving for more unity and cooperation. OK that's enough for now. Darryl, what do you think, theology pub night?
Raise a glass, I'm in. Cheers !