Selling out

I get frustrated with the Willowback model of church, yet, as Jordon points out in the comments below, I still attended the Willow Creek Leadership Summit, and Richview's even doing Saddleback's 40 Days of Purpose (hugely modified and dehyped). Either I'm selling out or McLaren's right in saying there's no such thing as a postmodern church or pastor. We're all somewhere in between. I'm not sure which of these two options is true in this case.

Comments

[kevin]

The models used by Willow Creek and Saddleback are not models I will probably use in my next church. They aren't me. They aren't the models that will work for the people I am sent to. I need to find a different model that works in my situation. But, that does not at all negate the models used by Hybels and Warren. I'm not as familiar with Hybels, but I'm quite familiar with Warren's work. One of the big points he makes in his book is that it's not about the model and that if you simply copy his model, you're missing the point. It's the philosophy behind Saddleback that makes it a great church in the community in which it exists. Frankly, I don't think the problem was ever with Hybels or Warren. I think the problem is with pastors who fall to the temptation of greed and are more interested in profits than discipleship, in status than service. Instead of taking the time to both listen to God and the wisdom of men who have gone before them, they talk of nothing other than how to get through the current "plateau" and grow to the next bigger size. And, I agree with McClaren. There is no postmodern church/pastor. There is Godly church. There is a Godly pastor. We happen to live in a time of transition where we see both modern and postmodern around us. Many of us see the world through a postmodern paradigm. Yet, our identity is still in Christ, not in the philoshophy of the world. Be thankful for men like Hybels and Warren. Use the tools and training they offer. But don't be a clone. Be who God made you to be. Lead His church in your community.

[hamo]

I am incredibly grateful for men like Hybels who helped me regain a passion for evangelism. I really struggle when emerging churchers bag them. They are doing what they believe in and it does produce fruit. It doesn't have to be everyone;s cup of tea. Let's celebrate the value they have added to the church rather than criticising them for not being like us I reckon its fine to attend their conferences - its not like its evil!! The body of Christ is big and diverse - and God uses all of us

[Brian]

I don't know that I ever set out to be a clone, and while I do admire what Hybels is accomplishing, I think I was more inspired to think outside the box and do something in our context. I think we're all susceptible to pride, either that we are like Hybels or that we're not. Both are wrong.

[Dave]

I've seen Bill Hybels in person and it's true what they say about his permanent tan. How can a man of the cloth apparently clothlessly sunbath so much? How can he claim to be godly when his stewardship of body includes flagrantly welcoming melanoma? He boasts openly about his love for expensive yachts and sailing. How can a man of self-denial lust for $100,000+ boats? A paragon of church growth virtue I doubt very much. The Apostle Paul, the connsumate missionary, built into his church planting motif the daughtering of new churches. How can Hybels justify a church that's the size of a megalopolis? Paul says "none seeketh after him, neither can they" (Ro. 8). How can Hybels self-righteously claim to be the King of the seeker-sensitive church? Needless to say I remain unimpressed too.

[Steve]

As always - - it's soooo easy to be critical :) I've learned a lot from those guys, there is much to admire. The truth is that they stimulate my thinking - they make me consider things I wouldn't otherwise. From where I do ministry, guys like Warren, Hybels, McLaren etc. don't really fit in so many ways, but they stretch my thinking so that I fit better into my ministry potential here.

[hamo]

Wow Dave! You have got to be kidding... I can't believe you can pass judgement on Bill Hybels character and integrity based on what you observe of his life from afar. Could it not be that God uses variety of expressions of the church to connect with different people. Unfortunately character critiques (as you have done on Hybels) only serve to reveal more about yourself. While I may not choose to go the Willow Creek path I will be ever thankful for godly men like Bill Hybels who have been an inspiration to so many others.