Thursday
Jul312003
Be an Abraham and take a risk
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 7:37PM This post is from the defunct blog "Dying Church"
I had read this interview with Robert Webber before, but it hit me with full force again today as Jordon quoted from it:The pragmatic churches have become institutionalized - with some exceptions. They responded to the sixties and seventies, created a culture-driven church and don
Reader Comments (7)
Hi all, I've been a lurker here but I was really struck by the Webber quote so I'll come out. I'm a Quaker from out of our liberal tradition and though we don't have pastors, we do have most of these same generational/institutional issues. Yes, I get very excited reading this stuff. I'm not sure where it takes me as a Quaker, but it's reassuring to see other Christians concerned too. I wrote a piece following up on these links on my personal website, see http://www.nonviolence.org/martink/archives/000074.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.nonviolence.org/martink/archives/000074.php Thanks for your post, Darryl and thanks everyone for the site! Thy friend, Martin
I'm not sure I know what a pragmatic church is, unless it's a traditional Baptist/Anglican/Methodist/ANOther denominational church. However I've been reading today about the concept of postmodern christianity and worship. IMHO I actually think it's a lot of bunk. People know where God is moving. Heck you can feel and practically see and touch Him. Clever sound systems, witty and insightful poetry, celtic chants and cool lights are just as much potential entertainment as 200 voice chiors and a super-slick worship leader. It all seems to focus on the packaging and miss the content completely. It's all about having a relationship with God, direct and personal, and then expressing that together. Coming together with a burning hunger for Him, and feeding with your brothers and sisters. Please don't get me wrong; anything that will push people deeper into God is great. But there seems to have been slip of focus.
Calling it bunk may be a little extreme, but your main point is valid. The emerging church (or whatever you want to call it) is just as capable of missing God as the modern, pragmatic church has been.
I like that he put "pray for discernment" in there. As much as I found it difficult working in a "pragmatic" ministry in the last year, I learned a lot of valuable things. If anything I learned how people in ministry tick. Since were all on the same side anyways it is good to know how to get along. I did my best to listen and learn. If I stayed there, or moved on to work in a pragmatic church I know it would slowly kill me. It is time to take a risk.
Sorry Leighton. I'm not sure I know what "Seeker style churches like Willow Creek or Saddleback" actually are. And I apologise i've I've been offensive. That wasn't especially the idea. I'd definitely endorse the sentiment of breaking from the 'commercial church'. The one thing I would suggest though is that the concept of 'doing a startup church' isn't given the bandwaggon treatment too readily without consideration of what's involved. Christianity isn't a game that we can shape ourselves (however much we try, me included) and although God is gracious, we actually need to check what his views are on specific issues occasionally too.
Toni: You have soom good points. The word pragmatic comes from Webbers book. It's his term for seeker style churches like Willow Creek or Saddleback. Although I consider myself postmodern/emergent I have little interest in "cool" alternative worship. For me the quest is more about getting back to more ancient form of Christianity less tainted by modernity. Real discipleship, community etc...
Darryl, What a great quote. Yes it does both scare me and excite me. I am just now reading Webber's book, The younger Evangelicals and that scares/excites me in the same way. Good stuff! Your Fellow Ecclesial Dreamer, James