Tuesday
Jun102003
The other church
Tuesday, June 10, 2003 at 2:40PM
Lots of talk in these parts about another church that's doing really well. We've lost a few people to them, and I think it's great (they went for the right reasons). It's one thing to talk about being the type of church that dies to itself, and about escaping from the success trap that's ensnared modern churches. But when you're a pastor and you hear of another church that's doing well, and that many of your people (my people? there's part of the problem) wish they could be there, you find out that your old nature isn't quite dead yet. I found myself wishing today that I could be part of the fun, or that we could have some of the fun here as well. That's why Jesus said we had to take up our crosses daily. Dying once isn't enough. I'm dying once again today, glad not only that they're doing so well, but also content that I'm not there and I'm not them. As Jesus said to Peter, "What is that to you?" (John 21:22).
Reader Comments (8)
Hey Darryl - I went to that "other church" briefly, after leaving another church (for all the right reasons) where I had spent about 30 of my 37 years. Their growth fascinates me. What do you think is going on there? (I wish I could express how "sincere" I am in this question - damn computers - there's no hidden meaning in my asking.) What do you think?
I think Bruxy is a big part of what's happening there. He's a charismatic personality and a great teacher. They're innovative, solid, and they have a good strategy - moving people into their house churches. Their vision is surprisingly modern in terms of growth goals. They do appear to those of us who are younger and tired of the old ways of doing church. That being said, you know them a lot better than I do. What do you think, Mike?
I think all the reasons you identified are valid, Darryl. Although when we left I had heard mixed responses on the strength of their home churches. (I think they need leadership development so that they become as rock solid as the model implies they should be.) And if that's the case, then I go back to "Sunday" as being a big part of why people are going. We only went on Sunday. First, the worship is great. As good as they are "musically", I always felt it was about the worship. And then yes, there's Bruxy. I can't quite put my finger on it. I hate to invoke the overused word "authentic", but that's all that I can come up with. He's a great speaker, he knows his Bible inside and out, etc., but it's more than that. I think the first Sunday I was there I turned to my wife and said "I've never heard that about those verses before!", and that happened a lot. I think it helped that we showed up last year just as they started "The Jesus Scandal" series. That series really rocked my "nice and neat, atonement-in-a-box view of Christ", for which I am grateful. It's amazing that they really want to reach pre-Christians, yet people are flocking there from other churches. (Admittedly, if you adhere to a stricter, more traditional, more legalistic view of Christianity then you will HATE the place, and think that Bruxy is the devil himelf. And some do.) I find their attitude toward postmodernism very interesting. I met with the senior pastor there a few months before we moved. (It's a bad habit I have!) Anyway, I was reading anything I could find on the subject, so I wanted to ask them about their views, seeing as they were a textbook example of a postmodern church. His answer shocked me. Yes, they've read some of the same books. They liked some, but not others. No big deal. They appeared postmodern because they let people do their thing... and their people were postmoderns. Do you follow? It's kind of confusing. For them it was all about the message. The packaging was almost irrelevant! If people liked the style of worship, liked the use of video, liked the darkness of a movie theatre church, then great - that's what they'll do. They don't really care either way. I was shocked. They were proving the theory by not trying to. They're a postmodern church not because they've read some book and are trying to be, but because they let their postmoderns do their thing, and that attracts others, etc. Sure, it's a chicken-and-egg thing to a degree, but they are sincere in it. Fascinating. Sorry for rambling. As you may discern, I miss the place.
I went there a few years ago on a study break. Bruxy was away that week, and they were a lot smaller back then. I really have to go back and see what's happening again. I'm excited by how well they're doing, not because they're doing anything special, but they're just doing what the church should do. I've often wondered how well they'd do without Bruxy. The peril of charismatic leaders, as Jim Collins points out in Good to Great. I like what you wrote about their views on postmodernism. They're starting new congregations (one near us), but their long-term goal is to fill a huge venue. That's very un-postmodern. It surprised me, but I'm sure that's very much in flux. If I were you, I'd miss this church as well!
hey Darryl, Mike: I enjoyed reading your conversation, and watching you deal with life. Thanks for sharing openly.
We go to The Meeting House - and have for about a year at the end of this month. Can I just say that the growth in the last twelve months has been absolutely mind boggling! We too left a denomination I had been in since birth, and an actual church building for the last 30 years (I actually work there just to make life a little interesting). Simply said - I love to go to church now. Its a combination of things, the music (I don't like to call it worship cause I think the whole thing and our whole lives should be worship) is amazing - stuff we listen to at home and actually people we listen to at home. The teaching by Bruxy and the other pastors is awesome. We walk out of every service nattering about the sermon and just growing. It isn't all pat you on the back and make you feel good stuff either - its challenging, sometimes uncomfortable but defintely bible based and packaged so uniquely that you love to go and listen. Sundays are great (I get butterflies in my stomach cause I get to go there), but for us in our house the Wednesday night home church is it.....by far. We have absolutely found our spiritual family and I never knew I didn't have one till I found it. This incredible group of people are so genuine and open and willing to be vulnerable with eachother it is incredible. Sorry I ramble like my brother, but this last year has been an incredible journey. For us it wasn't a real this is what we are looking for experience, it was a "this is where you should be" kind of thing.....make sense?
I actually used to work at The Meeting House. Bruxy and I were roomates twice and we're still pretty tight (He and his wife let me stay at their place when I'm in Ontario. The growth goals of The Meeting House isn't a large single sight thing like most modrn churches. The strategy is smaller "satellite" sites all over the GTA meeting in Silver city movie theaters. They are all completely function as an "independent" church for the most part, wth the exception that they listen to Brux durring the teaching time via video. I know it sounds odd... but it works for them quite well. Their Hamilton site more than doubled it's size in only about a year. The Meeting House doesn't fit inside the post-modern box. It's its own thing. In some ways, that's as PoMo as you get. But the Meeting House isn't for everyone. The body of Christ is a diverse and multicolored entity that needs many types and breeds of churches to reach a multicolored world. Just my thoughts. By the way Darryl, I'm moving home to Ontario in a few weeks! We'll have to have that coffee now!
I just reread my comment - when I said growth was mind boggling, I meant our spiritual growth - that has been huge. The numbers issue (which can bug some people) doesn't phase us - it still seems like a really intimate setting - especially when you are seeing your home church friends all the time. Just came back from home church now and as usual it is the highlight of my week. No matter what kind of a day you are having, they listen, they care and it is amazing.